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 Post subject: My own Preference
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Silent Mouth
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Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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Plotts and Bluetics . It was stated earlier that blueticks were to slow and that may be the case for what he has seen but with enough time and exposure we find that all breeds have folks that are breeding for the traits that you personaly desire.
There are general when you are starting out that may increase odds that things will turn out more like what you want.
That being said there is no substitute for wood work and shoe leather . You can make a lot of good dog just by getting them in the woods and catching desired game .
Now comes the fine lines you cannot get top dogs unless they were programmed to be top dogs in thier genetics and linebred dogs will be much more consistant ( especialy in the hands of a proven breeder of many years ) .
That being said I have seen more top biggame dogs of the Plott and Bluetick variety.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:39 pm 
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Waterway-56 wrote:
I agree with Jumpin Bear and Ike. Every so often some one starts a post trying to find a magic line or breed of hound that just does it. I have news for you though. Generally when you find top hounds, you also find a top houndsman who has trained them, handled them and hunted them. Not much for magic lines or breeds but a lot of hard work and dedication of the houndsman!!

Mel


I think alot people should read your post again Mel cause you have told it like it is: "Not much for magic lines or breeds but a lot of hard work and dedication of the houndsman!"

Some special or great dogs do come along that seem to want it (the bear or lion) alittle more than others, and many people might just figure it's the dog--you know, that dog is great! Another possibility is that the handler and that hound were a match, and that that hound did everything in it's power to please the handler. Maybe the hound worked harder to please the man who made him? Maybe it was really more environment than DNA? After all, if it was just great genetics then every pup from that bloodline should be GREAT DOG huh?

I'm gonna raise and hunt a plott this year and give him a chance to run with my dogs from the get go to see whether they'll hammer out a track like these english and redbones will. That should be fun! I'll give a blow by blow account so you can all follow his progress.


Keep'em treed!
ike

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 Post subject: Nothing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:29 am 
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Silent Mouth
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Nothing is black and white . A good handler will find very few dogs that he/she cannot get to go hunting run a track locate tree ect... .
I guess it all boils down to what your definition of top dog is .
Just so we are on the same page I am not saying that dogs have to be linebred or be pure bred cause nothing is black and white but consistancy plays a big role .
Not just in lines or breeds but in getting the dogs in the woods and on game.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:57 am 
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Bawl Mouth
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I often hunt with hunters new to the sport as they like to run pups with my old blue dog. One young guy was given a timid older hound that was only a fair hunter. I watched this hound litterally blume with him and every hound he has had since has developed into a hound most anyone would be proud of. Another person I have hunted with has gone through many hounds without much success. One pup he bought really impressed me at first. The last time I hunted with him he shot that pup!!! What a waste! It is always easy to blame the dog as they cannot talk back. Hounds respond far better to positive encouragement than Negative mistreatment.

my .02 Mel


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:48 am 
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Tight Mouth
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Good genes and a good trainer is a combination and hard to beat. A dog can only perform the tasks his genes tell hin to do. Hounds don't point quail, but can be taught whoa in the presense of birds. A good trainer will bring out the genes and polish the dogs performance. Some are natural hunters, and some are natural trainers. Having been down the road, the next thing I expect to hear in this thread is how one will declare how great his pack is and no one else has dogs in the same class with them. IMO the dog isn't much better than his trainer, and the trainer isn't far behind his dog.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:26 pm 
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I sure understand what you're saying Mel about the handler or owner making the difference. I let a friend bred my Ike dog to his female redbone a year ago summer. His female is half sister to my Ike dog and therefore that cross falls under the label of line-breeding--both dogs had Hoffmeister's Red Bomber as a sir. I took first pick of the males for a stud fee service and left him with the rest.

Pup #1 in the hands of a hunter:
I sold my male to a friend that ask me for a pup out of Ike. The young man is a dedicated hunter that runs his hounds most every weekend. He is 25 year old and has been running hounds since he was 13 on coons or whatever track he could get to. He already has a lock-down pack of hounds for that young dog to work with and knows how to bring a young dog along. I ran with him last summer and he has that young dog riggin his guts out on bear. That young male pup would start and bark down a dirt lion track at seven months of age just like Ike would at the same age, run his own track and not honor the older dogs. Recently, he told me that the young dog won't quit a track and has stuck to a track as long or longer than any of his old dogs, giving voice the whole time. This young man has nothing but good things to say about this dog.

Pup #2 in the hands of another young man that just hasn't figured it all out yet:
Already bred that pup twice, never had it to a big game tree yet and well on the way to becoming a useless hound. The good thing is he gave it to the first guy--the question is can he turn that young dog around?

The two pups I just spoke about came from the same litter but had two completely different environmental settings and trainers. I suppose there are plenty of cases like this one that show how one young dog floats to the top of his world like cream in a cup and the other most likely ends up eating a bullet.......

I still believe the handler is what makes the difference, sure it helps alot if the dog has good feet, tough pads, a heart of stone, the patience it takes to work out a tough track, a voice that can be heard over others, and looks to boot because in the end that's how those great dogs evolve.

Show me a great hound and I'll bet there is a good hunter standing in his shadow!

ike


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:36 am 
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Silent Mouth
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Young man starts inhounds he catches a few trainers and uses scent drags not a lot just a few times he goes out a few times with a couple guys that have been doing it awhile but nothing gets caught .
He starts going out by himself and right off the bat he catches a bear on his first trip out Luck he goes out several more times and he only came up empty 3 times out of 12 that is pretty good for all dogs being under 12 months old Maybe they were really easy bears or maybe the dogs just did a bang up job never will know.
Of the three dogs all within a month of each other all had same amount done with them 2 of the dogs did not make even half of the racesand those two came from top dogs but the third came from a long line of family bred dogs He started every race and did everything at a higher level than the others. They all made good dogs but the one that had been bred ( linebred ) made a top dog, the other 2 were from just breeding good dogs to good dogs . I can relay many similar instances of this .
Point is yes breeding plays a major role in what the end result and even beginning of a dog is.
I do not think Ike and I will agree on this and probably a few others here but that is OK . It has been my own experience and many others that have been at this for a long long time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:57 pm 
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And I'll agree with you Smilee, it's OK with me if you have different opinions on where great hounds come from as long as I'm allowed to have my own opinion! That doesn't make either one of us right or wrong, as our opinions are just that.......our own personal experiences!

I wonder how many potential great dogs fell by the wayside becasue they weren't placed in the hands of a hardcore, tough, savy hunter?


Keep'em treed!
ike


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Basically what I was looking for here was who is breeding hounds and what type of hound that consectutivly(sp) excels on big game. I am looking to get a couple pups and train them to hunt cat and possibly bear. I'm looking for cold nose, well put together, one gear being forward until they tree or bay their prey, they must have grit. I always train my own hounds, I just want to find what breeder is having consectutive results in their program.
Thanks Jim Balash


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:43 pm 
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A post like that will always draw comments that imply my dogs are better than yours........count on it!

If you're looking for good cat dogs, you'll find people breeding dogs that will getrdone all over the west--and neither you nor anybody else will ever sort out who has the best blood or who is breeding it. When I bought a redbone, a hunting buddy and outfitter I hunt for told me to look for a western redbone that came from big game hounds...don't get a coonhound he remarked. So that's just what I did. I bought a pup out of that Hoffmeister stuff whose ancestors are all coonhounds. Personally, I didn't want anybody out west taking credit for all my hard work...so a coonhound it was. That dog is as good a trail hound on big game as I've ever hunted with, and was done to show a trail hound is a trail hound.....not a coonhound or a lion hound or a bear hound......but just a hound.

Good genetics with the physical capability are centainly important........but the end result rests on the back of the hunter.

ike


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
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Jim I would recomend looking around in a resonable distane of where you live. Hounds found in that area will be easier to see hunt. The reputation of the breeder is easier to verify and garranties are easier to to get fulfilled as a rule. I wouldn't worry about breed or lines so much as just making sure the ones you choose can get it done. (Could be somebodies crossbred that suites you)
Charles I agree pride in your hounds can get to talking to much! Iguess I better own up to being proud of my blue hounds. That said, I have been honored to hunt with some wonderful hounds other houndsman own. I enjoy a quality hound!


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