I have a question for you guys. Others feel free to chime in also if you wish.

I have been around Retrievers all my life and as of late I have gotten into Hound hunting. Got the bug good for big game hunting with hounds! In the retriever world guys keep the dogs till they die. Oh they might get a pup so they have another dog started before the old timer is gone.
My question is why do guys work thier tail off to get a good hound that is getting it done and then sell it? I can see a older dog that can't keep up any more might go up for sale as a pup trainer or to a youth hunter. But why sell dogs in thier prime?? I seen the other thread on buying dogs and dog jockies and this question came to mind.

Thanks!

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Will M.,

The only reason I would sell a hound is because I've had too many. Over the past thirteen years I've sold two adult hounds to guides and outfitters that needed a hound to finish a lion track for their hunters. I still regret selling the first and only sold the second because I didn't need nine hounds to do what I'm doing these days. Other than being over stocked I don't know why a guy would ever sell a good hound......

LCK touched on dog jockeys who start a mess of pups every year by throwing them in with the old dogs. Typically those started dogs sell for one to three thousand bucks and help those guys fund their sport--but I doubt they ever sell many of their finished, real dogs that are doing the work like LCK said. I've had a couple guys calling me to sell my Kody or Griz dogs that are coming five this summer, and they are the future of my pack when Choco and Ike start slowing down. Hell sakes, they are the meat and potatoes of my bear pack if a bear squirts out running, cause they will run that bear to hell and back for a tree.......and it would be foolish to sell them at any price unless I was getting out.

I've had alot of guys tell me if I have six start dogs I could sell them one cause I still had five left. Now that makes senses doesn't it? But which one am I gonna turn my back on?

So you'll have to ask LCK why a guy sells one of his best hounds. I've made the statement a few times that I wouldn't trade my seven year old Choco dog for a new truck, and that's about what I think of a hound that will do it all.......if it's taken me seven years to get him there then what would I do without him?

Personally, I have two coming twelve year old hounds that are special to me. I could have sold those dogs off to help a kid but it's against my ethics to sell an old buddy that has hunted for me for eleven years to some kid to beat into the dirt. Someday I hope to retire, and maybe I desire that.....if I do then maybe that old hound of mine desires a retirement as well............

ike

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The Wolf Pack's Acomin!

very well said ike. any hound dog you have spent countless hours training and hunting deserves the best. i hope your 12 year olds have an easy retirement. any dogs that do it well that many years on big game or anything else wouldnt be leaving my place.

happy hunting, matt.

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once you go black you never go back.
b&ts forever

Well, there are a lot of reasons people would sell their best hounds. We have already coverd the dog jockey reasons on the other post.

Here are a few reasons why some others sell their good hounds.

Some folks do it for the money. They enjoy starting young dogs and seeing them finish out, then move them on for a good price. These people are honest and up front about their dogs.

Some do it because they NEED the money. Health problems in the family, lost employment, etc.

Some do it because they are getting out of the sport completely.

There are many reasons to sell a top dog and not all of them are bad reasons.

i agree the only reason i saw a man sell his top dog is for the need of money for bills and needs it fast or he is getting out of it.I like to start dogs or train them for people i prefer it be their dog.If its out of my stock i give them a dog that will go from the box to the tree other wise it dont go.

This may be out of the ordinary, but I have seen guys who have had top dogs sell them off just because they always think they are going to get something better after they do it. They are always looking at what other guys have and think they need to have what they are running. One older guy I hunt with who most defiinatly dont need the money always sells his best dogs when they seem to be in their prime. I can never figure it out as he always talks fondly of these dogs but has no remorse in passing them down the road. He may just not feel justified in keeping them as he is getting old, but in reality he gets them out there better than a lot of the young guys who buy them from him.
Rick

A few years ago one of the local dog trainers told me he was sure jealous of me, so I asked why? "Well, when I get a young dog really showing I have to sell it to make a living and you just keep on hunting the same dogs watching them get better and better."

That comment surprised me a little and I've always looked at the man differently since then. He was correct in his observations, as my wife and I have had decent jobs, my kids are all grown, and I haven't needed to make extra money that way to support my sport. I've also had a good friend who runs an outfitting business who has allowed me to run down lions and bears for his clients to help support my sport, which allows those hounds to help pay their way without selling them. He also showed me the ropes and has always been there to lift me up when things didn't go my way. If a guy has the heart, the desire and the legs coupled with knowledge and help of a veteran houndsman, then learning the trade is pretty damn easy..........

But guiding hunters is a horse of it's own color and certainly has its drawbacks..........

ike

I agree with alot of the posts. I dont want to sell my best dog or dogs, mostly because I want to keep hunting. I let old dogs retire in my pen, if they have done their job for me and done it well, they earned the spot. And I dont normally sell dogs to anyone, but I will give one away in a heartbeat.
I had guys give me a couple good older foxdogs when I got in it. So I have no problem letting the right people just starting get an old dog, however I will never let a dog go to a person Im not sure will treat it right agian, happened one time, dog didnt suit the guy and when he brought him back he looked like death and I had to put him out his misery 4 day later. I wont let people like that take a dog, from now on they got to convince me before I let an old one go. But letting a new hunter get a dog is a good way to keep hunting strong, as long as it is the right type of person.
Ive bought guys out and got a good dog or 2, and I have bought guys out and gotten nothing to show for it. Bought the last 4 foxhounds a man had last december, none live here all didnt suit, gave them all to people who wanted them.
I think the biggest thing that is being missed in answering your question is the following:
'NO DOG, I REPEAT NO DOG IS PERFECT'
Some are poor, bad, ok, average, good, great, or once in a lifetime dogs, but none are perfect. All have a flaw big or small.
No 2 hunters are the same, I hunt with my father, grew up with him, trained by him, learned hounds/beagles from him, love and respect him, and we still dont see eye to eye on alot of things in hunting and what a dog is/isnt doing or should/shouldnt do.

Here are somethings of the top of my head I despise in any dog:
bark in the pen
bark in the box
poop in the box
eat his poop
poop/poop in the food/water bowl
not open alot on the track
wont help trail ( i do have some that dont, but i consider it a fault, and they are top notch running dogs or tree locators)
fussy with others in pen/truck/at the hole/tree
face bark
bark coming off the truck
bark 1-2 times going to a chase
barking on a dog track occasionly (not running one)
leaving the block of woods I casted in, unless on a track
not honoring other dogs
climbing out the pen
not coming when called
not returning to cast
and many many more


To some hunters they can overlook all these Faults if the dog runs great. Depending on how the dog runs I can overlook some of these faults, and yes all are faults bc a perfect dog in my mind wont do it. These are not even huge faults, like backtracking, running a dog track, running off game, or failing to tree, and Im sure there are more I left off.

I know guys who would sell their top perfoming dog for many of these faults. It is all in what a hunter is demanding of his dogs/pack. when I let a dog off the chain or out of my pen they run and load them selves on my truck, when im hunting and I tell one of them get on the truck they are trained to load on the truck agian, I will not keep a dog that doesnt handle the way I expect, a pup I will work with after 1 season you better do it or Im not keeping you. I have seen extra nice dogs sold because they would string the pack out with their speed instead of keeping the pack close together, Its easier to sell the problem and have a good pack than to keep the problem and build a pack around it. Yes some hunters sell junk and say its good, money forces some to sell their best performing hound, sometimes liquor can be involved, seen a drunk man sell his best, sometimes there is a fault or faults they can live with but you laugh about not being a big deal. Most wont ever sell their best, some do, some have to, some like the idea of money, some dont think it is there best

2 most important things, no 2 hunters think exactly the same on hounds, and No dog is ever perfect

There are a lot of great replies here. One thing I found in common with all the replies are that the ones that did reply will keep a good dog around till it's days on earth are no more and that they derserved it.
I can see where guys that like to monkey with pups and get them going and sell them as started. But for the life of me I could never understand selling a 3-4 year old dog in it's prime and doing all it's been bread to do.
Thanks for the replys and feel free to carry on the thread if you choose. As it's all good reading!