As Christians if we truly believe that there is a Heaven and HEll do we do all we can to convience people? I believe that this two places are as real as anything in this world and still I feel as if I am not or can't do enough to get all my loved ones in before my Lord comes back. Please continue to pray for me and my extended family as I know that some are lost and just pray for them. And ask yourself if you are doing all that you can because it is one or the other and there is no in between. God Bless and be thankful for his Grace.

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Patrick Robinson
Star, N.C.
910 428 8984
If it was a sin 2000 years ago it is a sin today!!!

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I don't beleive that we do enough to tell the people about Jesus.I just lost my dad in a house fire (fathers day) and some people were telling me that they were sorry for me until I asked them was there daddy saved and we they said no then I told them I was sorry for them I NEED TO DO MORE TO REACH MY LOST FAMILY help me Lord God Bless

I am real sorry to hear about your father, BMC Man. My condolences to you and your family.

Never have posted here. I usually use this site to look for Hog Hunting Equpi. but I thought I would put my 2 cents in on this. (I like this forum from what I have read)

All we can do is put the info out there, God will take care of the rest. It is not our place to convince someone...in Romans it talks of the chosen, God chooses us, which is off your original question but I think that it can be applied and the concept I speak of took me about 6 months to finally absorb the fact, we don't choose God but he chooses us. He knows when we are ready and places us in the postion to hear and accept, what his will is, not ours. So again it is our job to put the info out there for numerous reasons, #1 our job is to glorify Christ and #2 he tells us to share the word. He will take care of the rest. I hope that this helps you with your question and thank you for allowing me to be a part of it. BAM

Hey BAM,

I have quite a zeal for exposing John Calvin's heretical 5 points. I believe what you are describing is double predestination. It is a mistake to say that God chooses some and leaves others without any hope whatsoever. It grossly defiles God all-loving nature. I was hoping we might engage in a friendly discussion. Are you up for it??

David
Florence, SC

Dave, I would love to discuss it. In fact not to sound smart, I would love for you to guide me from this thinking. Like I said it took me about 6 months and many debates to come to agree with the predestination thought. I still have a hard time choking it down and I don't like to call it predestination as much as it is that he knows us before we know him and that he knows who's hearts are tender and who's hearts are hard. I would be happy to discuss it.

I believe once the seed of Gods word is planted into a persons mind it never leaves them. They may choose to put it away and never act on those words or feelings, but it will always be their in the back of all our minds. Every one has a purpose in this world. Its freewill that God allows us to choose our own path in life, but if we're willing he will guide us along that path into the right direction that he wants for us.

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"Knock'em out John, it won't be long", Jerry Clower

Here is my e-mail

wdciscoinc@hotmail.com

Please contact me with whatever questions you have on your mind and we will take it from there. I used to be a staunch 5 point calvanist. I will show you how God sovereignly chose His elect in eternity past according to the foreknowledge of who would and would not receive Him.

John 1:12

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

How does a calvanist or anybody get saved ? I thought it was GRACE thur FAITH.

Yes, that is exactly right.

Faith is the condition by which man recieves God's free offer of salvation.

A predestination buff would say that this faith is a gift from God implying that man is so depraved He doesn't have the ability to excercise saving faith.

Lets go to the Word of God....


Matthew 9:22 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed from that moment.


Matthew 9:29 (Whole Chapter)
Then he touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you";


Mark 5:34 (Whole Chapter)
He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."


Mark 10:52 (Whole Chapter)
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.


Luke 7:50 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."


Luke 8:25 (Whole Chapter)
He got up and rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. "Where is your faith?" he asked his disciples. In fear and amazement they asked one another, "Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him."


Luke 8:48 (Whole Chapter)
Then he said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace."


Luke 17:19 (Whole Chapter)
Then he said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well."


Luke 18:42 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."

1 Corinthians 2:5 (Whole Chapter)
so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Ephesians 1:15 (Whole Chapter)
[ Thanksgiving and Prayer ] For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,

Colossians 1:4 (Whole Chapter)
because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints—


Colossians 1:23 (Whole Chapter)
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.


Colossians 2:5 (Whole Chapter)
For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.


Colossians 2:12 (Whole Chapter)
having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.


1 Thessalonians 1:8 (Whole Chapter)
The Lord's message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it,



Philemon 1:5 (Whole Chapter)
because I hear about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints.


Scripture is clear that excercising faith in Christ is completely on our end of the deal. It is clearly ours, not some gift God chose to give us. Only by the convicting, enlightening ministry of the Holy Spirit are our depraved souls able to do this, but neverthless this part is up to us.

God offers the gift of salvation to all men. Whether or not we recieve this gift is up to us.

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

One might ask themselves, well how do I receive this gift of eternal life???

John 3:16:

16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



David

Well I have always been taught that grace and faith are the only ways. Throughout the New testament the word "Faith" is seen over and over, like David said it is up to us to use faith. Just think of how powerful faith is, the tells us that faith the size of a mustard seed could move a mountain. Just remember that there isn't nothing that the God we serve can't do.

I am a pretty staunch "TULIP" guy. But I won't get in a debate about it. What I have found is that folks that believe in Predestination / and those that are on the Armeniesm side of things have this one important belief in common:

Jesus saves! I've met both Calvanists and Armeniests who were excited about spreading the Good News.... and I've met both that were lousy at spreading the Good News. But I've met both who believe the way to Christ is a repentant heart and through Faith in God's Grace..... if I can agree with an Armeniast on that statement... then I refuse to get in a debate about the whole thing.

dk

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Esse quam Videri

Amen Brotha

If we went about spreading the word as we should, we wouldn't be spending much time on this board. I'm a born again christain for 7 months. i do a lot of bible study and reading. best i can tell is, i'm a poor excuse for a christain and it's not for me to judge Gods' other servants but i still do. i hope and i seek to be an ever better christain.

I don't think any of us do enough to share it with those around us that Hell is a real place of fire and brimstone!

On the predestination issue....I believe that the Bible says "Who he did foreknow...he also did predestine to become the sons of God." ..... He knows who's going to be saved and who's not going to be saved...that's what the predestination is!... I definitely don't believe that it was a pick and choose situation!