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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 612
Okay I think I am prepared to answer your questions the best I can.
Mathew 22:12 And he said to him, Friend (used in a negative way), how did you think you could come hither not having a wedding garment? (you have on your own garment, which is self righteousness and have refused my garment, which is the righteousness of Christ.) And he was speechless. (This man deemed his own garment, which is self righteousnes good enough for the feast; and it suited him very well until the King came in, and then he was exposed and cast out.)
Mathew 22:13 Then said the king (God the father)to the servants (angels, in this case), Bind him hand and foot, and take him away and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Hell is the end result of all self righteousness)
Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the Saints. (The "fine linen" is symbolic of "Righteousness", by what Christ did at the Cross.)
I don't believe this is a final judgement but it makes a difference when you believe the rapture takes place. If the Rapture is pre tribulation, as I believe, then it can not be the opening of the Lambs Book of Life.
All this fits well with other posts you have made. You see in my church training I followed the "once saved always saved" doctrine. However having studied your posts and having asked questions of other I have come to the conclusion that a person can lose his salvatoin and be like this man in his own garments.

Mel


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:36 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

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Mel, Thanks for the imput. I agree withyou for the most part. IMO, most rely upon their own works for their salvation, but will hear God say, "I never knew you".
I think my view would better be discribed as being able to forfeit ones salvation rather than losing salvation. Nothing can seperate us from Christ. I believe the scripture teaches that God will keep that "Which is committed unto him", against that day. Committed being the key word there.
I also believe the rapture will be "post" tribulation. Immediatly after the tribulation of those days. In talking with "pre-tribers", I find the difference is usually due to a lack of seperation between the warring against the saints by the anti christ, and Gods wrath being poured out upon the seat of the beast.
However if one lives for God EVERY DAY, tomorrow will take care of itself. If one makes it unto the end, it will be by the grace and power of God, and not by our own strength.

No one else has any imput about the marriage supper??


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
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One of the things I have enjoyed about this study is that Perry stone has done a good job in my view of explaining the different veiws held by different folks on the tribulation, and there is a bunch! I know this study has changed my veiws some from previous church teaching. Studying the rapture brings to importance a lot of different imformation from throughout the Bible.
Perry Stone is on Manna Fest on Dish TV. Not easy for me to catch that program but it might let you learn a little more about him and his teaching.

Mel


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 04 May 2009
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i am not wanting to cause a heated dicussion. so no one please get negetive with this just talking. I beleive in once saved always saved. I believe that God is a merciful God and he will not case out a soul that has been saved. I dont believe that a person that has been born again can lose there grace with God or salvation. I dont believe everytime i sin i am lost. And have to be saved again. He says repent and we should everyday. Well that is where chastisment comes in We are like children to God even though we do things our parent did not approve of we were are still there child we are chastised for it. We are suppose to learn and repent from those things we do wrong. Some learn and some dont but we are still there children. He word also says that if the seed be in the we can not sin for the seed without sin. In little peter. you can read it is not quoted well read it and let me not what youll thank. My God does not make mistakes when he put my name in the lambs book of life he dont take a eraser and take my name out. I believe in a loving God that has love out of this world. I might get chastised but i am still his son ever scence i kneeled down at the altar and asked into my heart let me know what youll think, God bless.


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

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Bro. I see nothing to cause a heated discussion here. Each has an equal right to their belief. Discussion is the best way to gain an insite into other viewpoints when searching for the truth. Search the scriptures, for in them ye think you have eternal life. Those of Berea were more noble than those of Thessolanica in that they searched the scriptures daily to see if these things be so.
A scripture that stands out to me is, It were better for them to have never KNOWN the truth, than to HAVE known it and have turned FROM it. Another passage that comes to mind readily is Paul's declaration, "Ye are FALLEN FROM Grace". One must needs have obtained grace in order to fall from grace. Why they fell isn't the issue, falling FROM is the issue.
Understanding Grace and it's operation is missed by most Christians. Grace isn't a refusal of God to see, condemn, and judge sin. Grace brings salvation, (souzo=delieverance for the soul, mind, and body) through faith. Not alone without faith, or by faith, but through faith. Grace teaches us how to live soberly, righteously, and godly in thid present life. Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.
But IF YE SIN, we have an advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous, who sits in the heavenly Tabernacle that God pitched and not man, offering a continual stream on soul cleansing blood to wash our sinful robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb. This is grace. However, "if they turn away, it is impossible to renew them AGAIN unto repentance" seeing how they crucify the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.
Grace to the wayward saint, is found in the advocate, not in the absense of the advocate.


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:52 am 
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bradley47 wrote:
CAN ANY ONE TELL ME WHERE THE RAPTURE DOCTRINE CAME FROM,IT IS A WORD THAT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE. TO ME AND I KNOW I COULD BE WRONG, BUT USING THAT WORD IS GOING AGAINST REVELATION 22 - 18. IT BOTHERS ME WHEN I HEAR IT SPOKEN. IT IS USED QUITE OFTEN IN MY CHURCH, I DON,T SAY ANY THING, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DOIS CAUSE CONTROVERSY THANKS

The word rapture means taken away. And taken away is in the bible many times
Jesus is comeing back to take us away. And the word rapture or raptor is in a
bible, the Catholic bible. The great Gerome tranlated the latan volgate he used
the word rapture or raptor. Now this all happen in around 340 AD, so the word
rapture has been here for a long time. To read more type in the word the Catholic
latin vulgate bible. And the Jerome
Lonnie Woodcox


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:07 am 
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What do you think the world will be like after the rapture? If me and my wife
and kids are the only ones taken away, the world will be the same way it is now.
But what if 50% is taken away in the rapture, Well that would be a big shock, but
there could be that many people ready to go. Then the people left here, there will
more than likely be around 80% of them killed in some kind of wreck. Like the
driver of a car or plane that is taken in the rapture, what about the people in
that car or plane that is not taken. There may not be enough people to ran any
kind of factor, no one to pump gas the world will be about like it was right after
the flood. Or have I got things all wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:23 am 
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Loose Mouth
Loose Mouth

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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I think that after the rapture then the anti-Christ will shift from being a man of peace to being outright evil. Folks who are left here will bow down to him and will want the one world gov't to put order to the chaos that will be here. With the church taken out of the world there will be a letting loose of every sinful drive with no reins. Those days will led up to the final battle between Jesus and Satan and after that Jesus will reign over the new Jerusalem(the restored Earth) for 1000 years.

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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

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I see the final battle between God and satan being fought after satan is loosed after being bound for 1,000 years. During this 1,000 years the cause of all earths ill's which is satans influence over unsaved man, will be bound and there will be no sin during that time, resulting in a restoration of the same innocense as was found in the garden. Death is the penalty for sin, therefore no death during that time, no sickness during that time, ect.
A study of the seven feast days of Israel, (7=Gods number for perfection) will reveal that Passover was the 1st to take place. Jesus our Passover was slain for us. Then unleavened bread. First fruits, was next when the graves opened and the dead showed themselves unto many. Pentecost was next, the 2nd chapter of Acts. The last 3 fall feasts are yet to come. The order is, trumpets, when the trump of God will sound. Then Tabernacles, the 1000 years, and then comes the final feast, The Day of Atonement at the end of the 1000 years.
This is Gods plan for the ages.


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth

Joined: 17 Apr 2005
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So after the re-creation of the garden where there is no sin,no disease,no death,no presence of evil whatsoever,Satan when he is released is still able to deceive the nations "which are in the four quarters of the earth,Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle:the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." ? "And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them." Seems to me that there remains a great deal of sin that needs to be judged after the thousand years ?


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Loose Mouth
Loose Mouth

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Rereading I think I did flip my 1000 years events. I don't get to far into saying what all happens or not except I know that Jesus is coming again and none of us know exactly when. All I really need to know is tell everyone about Jesus before it's to late is the best plan.


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:40 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

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Seems to me that there remains a great deal of sin that needs to be judged after the thousand years ?

Trueblue; I agree. When Moses was told to build the Tabernacle, he was shown the "pattern" in the mount. Pattern="The logos" or blueprint. That pattern was the blueprint of the "true Tabernacle in Heaven", which God pitched and not man. The earthly was a working model of that which was to come. It revealed to mankind what God was, and was going to do. The Bible says, "surely the Lord God will do NOTHING, but he first revealeth his secret unto his servants, the prophets". Again the things that be revealed belongs unto us and our children forever. The feast days shows the order of events that were to come. Every sacrifice showed something that Jesus was going to fulfill in its time. When the fulness of time WAS COME, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the Law. Notice the example shown in the Exodus, crossing the sea, wandering in the wilderness, crossing Jordan, entering the promise land, ect.
The first feast, with its sacrifice was "Passover" where the Lamb shed his blood. Jesus, our passover, was sacrificed for us. John introduced Jesus unto Israel as "The lamb of God". The sacrifice of the lamb gave a hope of better things to come. However the sins of Israel was finished with the death of the "He Goat". The He Goat was offered at the close of the Day of Atonement. The Day of Atonement was at the close of the Feast of Tabernacles, not at the beginning. The feast of Tabernacles was preceded by the Feast of Trumpets. The prophetic patter shown is, The Trump of God shall sound, (The priest announced the beginning of the final three feasts by a blast on the trumpet and everyone stopped what they were doing and went to the Tabernacle) Tabernacles followed where the chosen of God dwelt in tabernacles for 1 week, (7 days= 1 week, completion as was in the creation) representing the 1000 years of peace on earth. Satan is loosed, defeated for the final time. There will then be no more sin, so the Day of Atonement forever seals the redeemed unto God. This is when the rest of the dead will rise and the final judgement shall take place.
This is as I see it.


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:57 am 
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Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth

Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 35
Just want all to remember that even our tears of repentance, need the cleansing blood of Christ. What I mean is we all have such a sinful nature that even when we are trying to do the right thing in talking about Gods Word, we sometimes actaully hurt the Gospel.

Hears my point.....Lets all make sure that if a unbeliever wondered onto this site looking for HOPE and being drawn for God to salvation, that we dont find ourselves turning him or her off with them thinking that, "Man, these Christians are no different than the world, they seem to have no love or care about each other and just seem to argue"

My Pastor always tells me that satans greatest tool is to divide the brothers and make them argue. I used to be REALLY bad about this myself and at times still do ( I know not perfect, your RIGHT). I have learned though in being saved now for 27 years that even when I am sure I am RIGHT, no one would probably be saved by my talk or actions. It is by learning to be humble and by seeing myself thru Gods eyes, that I can be used by Him.....

You all have a very Merry Christ mas


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:01 am 
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Chop Mouth
Chop Mouth

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PG you make a good point, however it must be in context with the rest of the scripture. Ecc. 3:1 tells us that there is a time for everything. There is messages of love, and messages of reproof and rebuke, both spoken of in the same word of God. jesus showed both in his ministry many times, even to the point of making a whip and physically driving some out of the temple. Jesus spoke calling some hyprocrites, and snakes, called a woman a dog. His teaching was so strong that all except his chosen disciples walked away from him. Yet he was God manifest in the flesh, and God IS LOVE. Love doesn't hide the truth, it proclaims the truth, without compromise. Truth and love isn't malisious and hateful, but neither is it withheld in the presence of unbelievers.
Jesus commanded us to let our light so shine before men that they might SEE your good works and glorify God. They can't SEE your good works if they are hidden under a bushel. Preach the gospel unto EVERY creature. How shall they hear without a preacher? The gospel starts in Gen, and continues through Rev. Everything in between is the Gospel. Gospel Means "good news" or the teachings, commandments, and instructions of God unto his creation. Preach it unto EVERY creature. Each member in the body has his gift, his responsability, his talent, or his own job to do. Each member will be judge by how he does HIS job. One must minister according unto the MEASURE of the gift of Grace given unto him, as the scripture teaches.
Why judge another if his gift is different from your gift?? Who has made us a judge of another mans servant? God calls men, God will judge that man according to the talents that God gave unto him, not by mans ideas or openions.
If (as you say) God leads one unto this site, Doesn't God know everything about this site? Doesn't God know who needs what word, and where to send the seeker to find the answers that he is in need of hearing? IMO we need to let God manage Gods business as he sees fit. God did a pretty good job of creating the universe without mans help, is leading one unto salvation too great for him to handle?


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 Post subject: Re: the rapture
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth

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Charles,I'm having a hard time following your comments of Nov.26 & 28.If I am understanding you correctly,you are saying that during the 1000 years there will be no sin and no death ? A return to the conditions in the garden ? It seems to me that might be assuming too much in regards to Rev.20:3.I don't know that Satan being restrained necessarily implies the conditions of which you have described during the millennium.Rev.20:14 and 21:1-8 (emphasis on verses 3,4,6) seems to indicate to me that the time of no sin and death does not occur until the devil AND death and hell are cast into the lake of fire and the events of the 1000 years are complete.


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