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billy d
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:04 pm
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Joined: 09 Dec 2010 Posts: 101
Location: Texas
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I read on here that the "old hound men" are telling to single these pups out so that they can learn all the tricks of the trade on their own. Then I read where people are having problems with their dogs when they single them out, that all they want to do is boog-a-loo and get hung up on a track. Back and forth. Never figuring out how to put a tree on the right end. Now folks, give this a thought. Just how many of you have taught your self how to read and write, without going to school and having a teacher. Dogs are born with mother nature telling them a lot of things that they learn on their own. But, if they don't inherit the hunting, tracking, and treeing abilities and have the smarts to put them to use in the right way,,,,well,,,,,they will never learn with out a teacher. Dogs when young learn all the habits, that will be with them for life. Whether good or bad. A young dog needs to be taught by older dogs....Period....A young dog like I just mentioned, singled out, and can't find the right direction, will just keep on getting worse. He may tree an easy coon every now and then, just enough to keep you interested in him, but when he hits a track that he can't handle, there you go, back and forth, tree here and tree there. You finally give up on him and put him off on somebody else one way or other as a started dog. They give the dog a chance, same thing. On he goes to some one else, started dog. Then when this dog gets 4 and 5 years old, he is still being traded around as a started dog. This dog had all the makings of being a good solid country coon dog, but just because of all this riff raff of singling a pup out before his schooling was over, he is what he is.
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montananative
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:07 pm
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Bawl Mouth |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 902
Location: montana
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Coon dogs are not made in one or two trips to the woods. The first dog i ever had she did it all on her own, i could not tell you how many boring nights i had following a dog around the woods that didnt know what she was really doing. But the one drag i did, the one caged coon i showed her, THE HUNTING INSTINCT BRED INTO HER and the hundreds of trips to the woods made something click in her mind, i never had an old, finished dog to hunt with, i barely knew anyone with hounds, period.
She is a good coon, dog, not your high power comp dog i read about, but she trees coons every time i take her.
Personally i would rather single a dog out, its the hard way so alot of people dont want to do it. Its alot more fun to dump a pup in with a pack of old dogs, and the pup may look good, but ive seen it before you pull that pup out of that pack and single them out, and they look pretty stupid when there arent other dogs around to chase. A happy median needs to be met, both hunting the dog alone, and with older dogs.
One more example i have for this is when i got my second dog. Now i already had a finished coon dog, and then i got a pup. Well its alot more fun to run a dog that going to tree some coons, than it is to take a pup that has really no clue whats going on. So i never took my pup out alone, he always ran with older dogs, the pattern i started seeing was he would start his own tracks and hed be working them, then once one of them dogs opened up he would go right to them and hi jack their track. Another example is hed be out hunting, tess would hit a quick pop up tree and he would come barreling in like he owned the tree. That all came to a stop. I hunted the pads off that pup by himself. I didnt want a worthless me toin dog that couldnt get it done on his own. After three weeks of strait hunting him by himself, finally he started lining out his own tracks, and hitting trees with coons in them. he had to figure things out himself. Now i have two dogs that i can take out separately and tree coons.
Im no expert, but as i get more dogs in the future, i think singling a dog out is the way to build a solid, independent dog. Not saying you are never going to get that same result just from putting a pup in a pack of finished dogs, but me personally, i think singling them out is the best way to go. Ive only been doing this for 5 years, so im no pro, but this is what ive learned
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billy d
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:26 pm
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Joined: 09 Dec 2010 Posts: 101
Location: Texas
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A very good reply montananative, but wouldn't you say that all the drags and turn outs and pointing the pup in the right direction is a form of formal training, exactly what a young hound needs, the very same as hunting with experienced dogs. A pup has to be trained, or either one of a kind, which is few and far between.
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countryboy42
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:32 pm
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Silent Mouth |
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Joined: 18 May 2011 Posts: 25
Location: NY
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i personally like to start a ppup with a old dog once they start running and treein with old dog i will hunt them by selves 60% of time and with another dog the other 40%. i like to mix it up. iv seen few times where a dog thats always been hunted by its self looks stupid when it gets chance to be dropped with another dog.
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Jlogan205
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:25 pm
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Silent Mouth |
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Joined: 07 Nov 2011 Posts: 33
Location: Alabama
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In my opinion, a dog does learn to hunt on it's own, humans have nothing to do with it. It is up to us to motivated them, and show them the right way to do it.
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montananative
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:45 pm
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Bawl Mouth |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 902
Location: montana
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countryboy42 wrote: iv seen few times where a dog thats always been hunted by its self looks stupid when it gets chance to be dropped with another dog. Ive never seen that, the only thing ive seen, is a dog that is generally hunted by itself dont give a damn what the other dogs are doing, they can make all the noise in the world, and that dog will go find its own coon to run. ive seen that alot
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montananative
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:52 pm
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Bawl Mouth |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 902
Location: montana
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billy d wrote: A very good reply montananative, but wouldn't you say that all the drags and turn outs and pointing the pup in the right direction is a form of formal training, exactly what a young hound needs, the very same as hunting with experienced dogs. A pup has to be trained, or either one of a kind, which is few and far between. Pre hunt training is crucial in my mind. Getting that coon scent, and that tracking mind set locked in a dogs brain is important. The difference between pre hunt training is its all on the dog, they have to figure it out for themselves. Most the guys i hunt with are just as new to this stuff as me, so ive hunted behind alot of pups, most that were just turned out with other dogs, and most of them are relying on the old dogs to figure the hard stuff out, and taking credit for trees.
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SammyAlex
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:20 pm
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Tight Mouth |
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010 Posts: 243
Location: texas
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I'v seen a dog that has been hunted alone fall apart when put with other dogs or even when handeled by other people...
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bluwalker
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:19 pm
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Chop Mouth |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 332
Location: Wisconsin
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billy d, i'm going to put this in a way you might understand, since you dont know dogs and might understand people slightly better. A teacher teaching kids how to read is equivelant to (a pup trainer teaches a pup to track and tree a coon{to SOME extent, the rest is instinct}), but a kid gets good at reading by reading on their own (a young dog gets good at tracking and treeing a coon by tracking and treeing a coon on their own)............PERIOD............the similarities are even color coded for comprehension
_________________ GRNITECH Pr Like No Dawn J
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Latenighter1979
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:44 pm
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Silent Mouth |
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Posts: 31
Location: Illinois
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I do not know if I am doing this right, but i have a 4 month old english pup and W have been playing in the yard and he will trail and tree a hot dog on a drag, we play this game every day. I started loading him the dog box and going places letting him out and playing the hot dog game, loading him up and coming home. Now three nights ago I thought we would take him to the woods and let him follow us ( I took my 3 year old son) and my old slow dog that is slow but accurate. I had 0 expectations of the pup hunting never even thought he would get more than ten feet from us, here is where it gets interesting, he followed us. Old dog struck and treed. tied the pup back and shot the coon to the old dog, let pup wool it a lil, then we went on. Cut old dog loose pup went with him and was treed when he got to the tree. No coon but treed none the less. I took the pup with me last night to fill cattle feeders right after dark and he lit a track by silage pile follwed it 100-150 yards and treed had the coon. Do you guys think I just keep taking to the feeders and let him figure it out on his own or hunt him with older dogs?
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skeets
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:07 am
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Bawl Mouth |
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Joined: 08 May 2011 Posts: 626
Location: tennessee
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if a dog is back tracking a lot thats never a good sign i dont think. a dog is bred to run and tree. the first dog ever to run and tree couldnt been taught by another dog cause he was the first. ive had dogs that back tracked by theirself but put them with another dog and they would me to all the way to the tree and treeup in fact i just got rid of a dog like that. i would hunt this backtracker with other dogs and he would look good then i would hunt them by theirself and he went to backtracking again. the best dogs ive ever had were hunted by theirself when they was young, all i did was put them in the woods night after night and after a while they went to running and treeing coons. i didnt use cage coons are nothing, i trained them in the woods. good luck with your dog.
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Lonely n deep
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:57 am
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bad to single a dog out now i have heard it all lol boys when you were in school the kids that needed alot of the teachers help eventually caught on an did ok but do you remember the one smart kid that seemed like he or she already knew what the teacher had planned out for the day an how his or her hand poped up with the right answer first an how easy it came to him or her on that subject cause it was just in them nuff said
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billy d
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:54 am
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Joined: 09 Dec 2010 Posts: 101
Location: Texas
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bluwalker wrote: billy d, i'm going to put this in a way you might understand, since you dont know dogs and might understand people slightly better. A teacher teaching kids how to read is equivelant to (a pup trainer teaches a pup to track and tree a coon{to SOME extent, the rest is instinct}), but a kid gets good at reading by reading on their own (a young dog gets good at tracking and treeing a coon by tracking and treeing a coon on their own)............PERIOD............the similarities are even color coded for comprehension Instinct, is just what I said, what all animals are born with. They don't have to be taught to hunt for titty when they born, they don't have to be trained to walk, turn around before laying down, lift their leg, smell of each other's behind, etc, etc. If instinct tells a dog to trail a track forward, then what in the world tells him to trail it backward? And about kids learning to read, write, add and substract on their own, I won't even comment on that. Good reply bluewalker, but basically the same thing as I said. Lonely n deep wrote: bad to single a dog out now i have heard it all lol boys when you were in school the kids that needed alot of the teachers help eventually caught on an did ok but do you remember the one smart kid that seemed like he or she already knew what the teacher had planned out for the day an how his or her hand poped up with the right answer first an how easy it came to him or her on that subject cause it was just in them nuff said I knew that when I wrote this that some of you would be reading stuff in the post that wasn't there. I never said that it was bad to single a dog out. If you do before he gets ready, then you got problems. When you do single him out and he starts the bad habits, then get him back in school. Don't just keep hunting the hair off him like that has been suggested. If you do you better get your running boots on and get ready for some long nights, trying to stay up with him to show him which way the coon went, that is if you don't start back tracking yourself. Now don't get me wrong. The dogs that you own, you hunt the way you want. When they start all the bad habits, blame it on the dog and then pass him on as a started dog that just need hunting. I see em all the time.
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bluwalker
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:45 pm
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Chop Mouth |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Posts: 332
Location: Wisconsin
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Canadian Hillbilly
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:10 pm
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Chop Mouth |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 358
Location: Ontario
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if the dog has the genes required to be a good tree dog it will be a good tree dog whether it's hunted alone or with a pack.
_________________ AINT NO FINER SOUND THAN A BAWL MOUTH DAWG, IN OPEN BOTTOM WOODSLORDY WHAT A JAW ON A DOG!!!!I WORK HARD CAUSE MILIONS OF PEOPLE ON WELFARE DEPEND ON ME!!!!!!!
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