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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:06 pm 
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Hello all, my name is Jay and I am new to the coonhound world. I am a dog trainer however, I am with Quality k9 Concepts and we train dogs for police departments and private contractors in protection, patrol, narcatics and explosive detection, OB, and tracking. I recently just got a 6wk old english red tick and want to train him in to be a man tracker. I would like him to do search and rescue and even search for a suspect. I know the coonhounds have a different style of tracking then a GSD or a mal and would like some advice as to how to start him out in this kind of training. I would like to ask those of you who are experts with this breed some tips and tricks of the trade in training a hound to track a person. Thanks for your time and I am looking forward to talking with you all and learning more about the coonhound breeds. I currently have a GSD that is training in personal protection, detection, and tracking. My wife has been in love with coonhounds for a while and we finally got one. The only criteria that I had for her was that it had to work. I don't want a dog that is breed to work and not do anything with it. That is why I want to train him in OB and to be a man tracker. Any advice I can get will be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:23 pm 
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Jay, I do not think you are going to find many people that use hounds for man tracking on this forum as the site is for coon hunting.

Some site of interest:

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/show ... n/0/page/0

http://www.nasar.org/nasar/

http://navsar.org/forum/

I know our local SAR's team is training some coonhounds. Every few months when I run into them I ask about the hounds progress.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:51 pm 
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Silent Mouth
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no offense or anything, but I wouldnt use a redtick. YOu should try a bloodhound. THey arent great hunting dogs, but theyre GREAT man trackers. WHen my big bro ran away, they were using bloodhounds to find him. THey used one of his socks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:29 pm 
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Yeah I realize that eveyone here use their dogs to hunt thats why I thought that it would be good to talk to people who use these dogs and understands them. I really don't think that it matters if you teach them to track or trail a coon, a man, or a peanut butter sandwhich, shouldn't the bottom line and basic principle been the same in starting the training, just following a different scent, not a coon. I'm not hunting "coon" with mine so if you would like me to go elsewhere with questions I won't take it personal and will not be offended and will quietly go as I understand that this is a coon hunting forum. Really, if I had the land to hunt I would love to try it but seeing that I don't I want to use my redtick for hunting another game, "man". I have a pretty good understanding and plan for training him, I was just looking for some more advice, and thanks for the links, I'll check 'em out.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:35 pm 
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Jay, your more than welcome to hang around and ask questions.

When you ask questions like this one:
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I would like to ask those of you who are experts with this breed some tips and tricks of the trade in training a hound to track a person.


I just wanted you to be aware that since this is a coon hunting site, you may not get many answers to it.

Teaching a hound to track a human compared to tracking for game is a little different.

That is why I posted links to steer you in the directions of questions you were asking.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:00 pm 
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Thanks, I checked out the NASAR but the forum looks brand knew and there is nothing on it and I know about Leerburg, but they lean more towards GSDs and mals, but I just don't much like Leerburg, just my opinion. But thanks for the welcome and I think that I will hang around, mainly to learn more about the breed, they do fascinate me. I will try to pick out some things that might help me a little for what I want to do. On average, how is the redtick for learning, like for basic OB. Anything I should look for with behavorial problems besides the norm for any dog. I didn't know if anyone does anything besides strictly hunting with their hounds, like some also being family pets/hunting dogs. I'm married and have two little boys and a little girl on the way and live in an urban setting. I just want to get the dog doing something so he is not going nuts. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:48 pm 
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I run hounds for hunting and I run different dogs for SAR as well as cadaver dogs. It really all depends on the individual animal. Could a redtick be used successfully as a mantrailer? Yes, depending on the individual dog. It all depends on the dog itself. I have over the years had a few game hounds that I thought would have done well in SAR work, but they were unique individuals. You must keep in the front of your mind the bred in instincts for game in the hound breeds. Those instincts can at times be very difficult to overcome especially for a novice handler/trainer. The bottom line is you will never know until you try. Just remeber that the search dog world is FULL of "hobby" dogs and could use a lot more serious no nonsense working dogs. If your dead serious and have a strong knowledgeable support base go for it. If your just curious be willing to remain objective at all times. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:47 am 
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i Have a bloodhound and would love to train her for man trailing.. I just have no idea how to start her. She is 16 months old. is that too old to start training her?? Any advice would be appricated..Tahnk you.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:13 pm 
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I have started several 2 year old Bloodhounds, should be fine at 16 months.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:09 pm 
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Tight Mouth
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yeah but how do you start? is it the same as training a coondog?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:42 pm 
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Is playing hide and seek a good way to start out a young pup for mantracking? How do you start one out on a coon? How do you introduce it to him?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:02 pm 
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redtick3312 wrote:
yeah but how do you start? is it the same as training a coondog?


Go online and purchase the book Ready by Susanne Bulanda. It is a very nicely written how to get started sar dog training book. I have read them all and still think this one is the best on the market for the new handler.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:26 pm 
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When Bob and I went to Autumn Oaks this year we spoke with an older man who breeds Black and Tan coonhounds. His are the older type, Maple Hill Breeding. We were talking of different uses. He was telling us that they are beginning to get used for the tracking of escaped prisoners etc... He was saying that they were very trainable but that this training was The End Of the Road for them basically. Because the coonhound is a killing type of hunter they desire to kill what is at the end of the track. In the training of the B and Ts they have found that the Human is Indeed the PREY at the end of the track and the hounds can be a bit too agressive to retire to a Normal Life afterwards. Granted this is second hand, and I may have it partially wrong but the part that stuck out was that Coonhounds hunt to kill the prey where some other tacking types of dogs do not instinctively Kill what they are tracking. For instance Pointers will folllow a track and Point, not kill etc....
I Know there are different programs using coonies for SAR. I was interested to learn what this man was telling us about the prisoner tracking.
This is a really interesting thread. I love to see the different things people do with their various hounds and dogs etc...
ur AKC B and T LOVES to play hide and seek. I imagine your redtick willl., if nothing else enjoy the game! :)
Hope you get to go out coonhunting. I haven't been since 1979 and I look forward to going again within the next year. It is Thrilling! There is Nothing quite like it!
Have fun with your hound! Happyhunting Heather William


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 Post subject: Jay
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:03 am 
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Loose Mouth
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There are several people who use coonhounds for mantrailing. Perhaps the most serious is Lynn Fredericks who runs a team of redbones outside of Kansas city. she hosts a board for pet redbone owners on Yahoo, and there are several other coonhound SAR people posting on that site. Lynn claims that redbones are like bloodhounds on speed and are twice as fast and twice as smart. Paula McCollum runs blueticks out of Boise, Google for Treasure Valley Search Dogs. Famed SAR dog trainer Jonni Joyce recently got a redbone from Liz Dalton in Brooklyn, NY who has two redbones she's been training in SAR.
Coonhounds make perfectly good pets/housedogs, especially ones that have jobs to keep them from getting bored. Lynn's first SAR dog Tyler was a devil until she trained it for SAR work. They can also be very LOUD. Mine is fine in a second story apartment in Brooklyn, but bored hounds in a suburban yard with housecats and squirrels meandering by are going to be unpopular with the neighbors.
PM me if you need direct contact info...

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 Post subject: search and rescue
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:21 pm 
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I tried a black and tan. mixed results, she was real good at runaways, but lacked focus for the long tracks. I used no food rewards maybe that was bad, I dont know. Then just scent discrimination trails good at most tracks we tried, but in the diturbance stuff no good.. brian

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